My comments on Ancient Scripts:
Walter F. Picca
My first comment: March, 2015 [corrected]:
Jean-Francois Champollion did not correctly decipher Egyptian hieroglyphs. All present dictionaries and translations are wrong--including Young, Gardner, E.A. Wallis Budge, Raymond Faulkner, Wikipedia, etc.
The correct decipherment requires enlightenment. Jean-Francois Champollion was not enlightened. Enlightenment does not require the method he used to transliterate [decipher] hieroglyphics: comparing two ancient texts: demotic and hieratic—to decipher hieroglyphs—the sacred picture words of Pharaohs. He fell for a ruse: the Rosetta Stone. It is inscribed with three ancient languages; but, ancient Greek and the ancient Egyptian script do not have the same meaning as the hieroglyphs—holy picture words. They have a totally different meaning.
It was a ruse—to throw man off tract; so, that the correct enlightened decipherment would be recognized. He says, the meaning of the ancient Greek text is the same as the hieroglyphic: that is wrong: hieroglyphs never record historical events. They are not designed to do that. If, you used the transliteration of Jean-Francois Champollion, Budge, Gardiner, Faulkner, and others or any current hieroglyphic dictionary or converter; when, you try to apply it to different hieroglyphic texts—it comes out as gobbledygook. But, the correct enlightened decipherment comes out as an explanation of the higher law—or the holy science of genetics. Saying, they are equal to letters or syllables of the English-Latin alphabet—or have a particular phonetic value is ludicrous. To say, a group of hieroglyphs represents a word or letters of a name, is even more erroneous. Just the opposite is true: Each hieroglyph—or holy picture word represents or means a word—or requires a group of words to explain. Never a group of hieroglyphs to create a word—or name.
First Request:
My first comment: March, 2015 [corrected]:
Jean-Francois Champollion did not correctly decipher Egyptian hieroglyphs. All present dictionaries and translations are wrong--including Young, Gardner, E.A. Wallis Budge, Raymond Faulkner, Wikipedia, etc.
The correct decipherment requires enlightenment. Jean-Francois Champollion was not enlightened. Enlightenment does not require the method he used to transliterate [decipher] hieroglyphics: comparing two ancient texts: demotic and hieratic—to decipher hieroglyphs—the sacred picture words of Pharaohs. He fell for a ruse: the Rosetta Stone. It is inscribed with three ancient languages; but, ancient Greek and the ancient Egyptian script do not have the same meaning as the hieroglyphs—holy picture words. They have a totally different meaning.
It was a ruse—to throw man off tract; so, that the correct enlightened decipherment would be recognized. He says, the meaning of the ancient Greek text is the same as the hieroglyphic: that is wrong: hieroglyphs never record historical events. They are not designed to do that. If, you used the transliteration of Jean-Francois Champollion, Budge, Gardiner, Faulkner, and others or any current hieroglyphic dictionary or converter; when, you try to apply it to different hieroglyphic texts—it comes out as gobbledygook. But, the correct enlightened decipherment comes out as an explanation of the higher law—or the holy science of genetics. Saying, they are equal to letters or syllables of the English-Latin alphabet—or have a particular phonetic value is ludicrous. To say, a group of hieroglyphs represents a word or letters of a name, is even more erroneous. Just the opposite is true: Each hieroglyph—or holy picture word represents or means a word—or requires a group of words to explain. Never a group of hieroglyphs to create a word—or name.
First Request:
Phil Montgomery [transliteration for] Ani Meparishvili • 2 years ago
It says something like "Worship the great cat who utters the peace and perfection of the two goddesses. May you beget life, prosperity, and health."
I think that's about right though the double reed leaves are a bit confusing.
It says something like "Worship the great cat who utters the peace and perfection of the two goddesses. May you beget life, prosperity, and health."
I think that's about right though the double reed leaves are a bit confusing.
Walter F. Picca
This is my decipherment
This is my decipherment
Phil Montgomery’s reply: This is utter nonsense. Please don't pretend to know Egyptian if you you don't. My translation is correct. The problem is this is not an authentic inscription. It's a souvenir so the Egyptian is not the best.
PS The inscription is written left to right and top to bottom. You "read" it backwards.
My reply: Phil Montgomery, who ever he is: is 100% wrong! You always start at the bottom of a horizontal column and read up: vertical columns: you go from left to right--if the hieroglyphs face that direction. In this case, they face the opposite direction; therefore, you read from right to left. Nothing he says, is right.
Notice: Phil Montgomery does not show his face. Neither does he connect his translated words to the hieroglyphics. That he means he is a phony.
Phil Montgomery’s reply: Egyptian is a language like any other. It requires no mysticism to read. From your post it is clear you have no real understanding of the decipherment of Egyptian or of the study of Egyptian grammar. No one as ever claimed that the three inscription on the Rosetta stone are identical, but they are close enough to make the decipherement. He used his knowledge of Coptic and was able to compare the three texts as well as other Egyptian texts and was able to work out the relationships between the scripts as well as the grammar and phonology. Demotic essentially derives from Hieratic and Hieratic and Hieroglyphs were concurrent writing systems which interacted with each other. That is to say early and high register Hieratic preserves much of the pictorial nature of Hieroglyphs. Furthermore, Hieratic signs were incorporated into Hieroglyphic script as time went on indicating that texts were being transcribed in both scripts and the meaning was the same regardless of which script was used. Additionally, cursive Hieroglyphs incorporate elements of both formal Hieroglyphs and Hieratic.
Of course Hieroglyphs were used to record historical even its one of the defining characteristics of them. That's part of the reason why Hieroglyphs tend to be inscribed in stone because they are meant to last for eternity as testaments to historical events. We even have historical texts in Hieroglyphs that are corroborated by texts in other languages e.g. the peace treaty between Egypt and the Hittites. Not to say they weren't also used prominently for religious texts, but to say they weren't used for historical texts is just wrong.
The latter half of your post makes me think that you don't understand the difference between "transliteration" and "translation". Transliteration is when you transcribe the sounds (or an approximation of them) of one script into another. Translation is transcribing the meaning of a text into another language. People who study Egyptian are very aware that the transliteration is not a wholly accurate rendering of how Egyptian would have sounded, not least because the Egyptians did not include vowels in their native scripts. However, we use transliteration as a way of ensuring we are all on the same page as far as what is being read.
This lazy new age nonsense is for people who don't actually have the dedication learn a beautiful language but want to puff themselves up and pretend they have some special knowledge.
You are basically arguing that the ancient Egyptians somehow and for some reason developed a script that translates directly to English and has no sound or meaning value in the language of the people who invented it. This cannot possibly be true.
By the way they are Hieroglyphs not Hieroglyphics.
Second Request:
PS The inscription is written left to right and top to bottom. You "read" it backwards.
My reply: Phil Montgomery, who ever he is: is 100% wrong! You always start at the bottom of a horizontal column and read up: vertical columns: you go from left to right--if the hieroglyphs face that direction. In this case, they face the opposite direction; therefore, you read from right to left. Nothing he says, is right.
Notice: Phil Montgomery does not show his face. Neither does he connect his translated words to the hieroglyphics. That he means he is a phony.
Phil Montgomery’s reply: Egyptian is a language like any other. It requires no mysticism to read. From your post it is clear you have no real understanding of the decipherment of Egyptian or of the study of Egyptian grammar. No one as ever claimed that the three inscription on the Rosetta stone are identical, but they are close enough to make the decipherement. He used his knowledge of Coptic and was able to compare the three texts as well as other Egyptian texts and was able to work out the relationships between the scripts as well as the grammar and phonology. Demotic essentially derives from Hieratic and Hieratic and Hieroglyphs were concurrent writing systems which interacted with each other. That is to say early and high register Hieratic preserves much of the pictorial nature of Hieroglyphs. Furthermore, Hieratic signs were incorporated into Hieroglyphic script as time went on indicating that texts were being transcribed in both scripts and the meaning was the same regardless of which script was used. Additionally, cursive Hieroglyphs incorporate elements of both formal Hieroglyphs and Hieratic.
Of course Hieroglyphs were used to record historical even its one of the defining characteristics of them. That's part of the reason why Hieroglyphs tend to be inscribed in stone because they are meant to last for eternity as testaments to historical events. We even have historical texts in Hieroglyphs that are corroborated by texts in other languages e.g. the peace treaty between Egypt and the Hittites. Not to say they weren't also used prominently for religious texts, but to say they weren't used for historical texts is just wrong.
The latter half of your post makes me think that you don't understand the difference between "transliteration" and "translation". Transliteration is when you transcribe the sounds (or an approximation of them) of one script into another. Translation is transcribing the meaning of a text into another language. People who study Egyptian are very aware that the transliteration is not a wholly accurate rendering of how Egyptian would have sounded, not least because the Egyptians did not include vowels in their native scripts. However, we use transliteration as a way of ensuring we are all on the same page as far as what is being read.
This lazy new age nonsense is for people who don't actually have the dedication learn a beautiful language but want to puff themselves up and pretend they have some special knowledge.
You are basically arguing that the ancient Egyptians somehow and for some reason developed a script that translates directly to English and has no sound or meaning value in the language of the people who invented it. This cannot possibly be true.
By the way they are Hieroglyphs not Hieroglyphics.
Second Request:
Phil Montgomery’s [translation]:
Top: Words said by Thoth, Lord of Medu-Netcher (words of the gods i.e. hieroglyphs) of the gods, "Spell for the heart of the Osiris the royal scribe Hunefer, justified. Let my heart speak my mind to me. My heart did not die. Palpitations did not manifest in ascending to me (that is "my heart did not waver when it was tested"), exactly. Do not oppose me in the Scale of the Gods. Do not make your enmity known in my presence on your scale my Ka being in my body which joins it (with) my limbs which have gone forth to good things.
Under the scale: Ammet, her front is as a crocodile, her rear is as a hippopotamus, her middle is as a lion.
This isn't the best writing so there are a few problems but this is mostly correct. Also, I must say that that the labels on the facsimile are not correct.
Hope this helps, if you don't mind me asking what are you using this for?
My reply: Phil Montgomery is wrong. It does not say this. Nowhere is the god Thoth in the picture--or the hieroglyph for Osiris--or the royal scribe Hunefer--or the Ka. This picture is from the papyrus of Hunefer. The hieroglyphics are are so sloppy--they are difficult to read. Phil Montgomery did not get one word right. He says the labels of the picture are not correct: he is wrong. They are close to being correct. Here is how you can tell Phil Montgomery is phony: he does not tell you, which hieroglyphs relate to his translation. I do. He needs to show us: which hieroglyphs correspond to his decipherment. Once he does, than I can prove he is wrong. He says the top words, which top words? which top words mean: "Do not make your enmity known in my presence on your scale my Ka being in my body which joins (with) my limbs.....? etc." This is crazy talk. Until, he does that: he is an impostor. And, once he does: I will show you he is wrong. To start: there is no word for palpitations in hieroglyphics. These hieroglyphics are so sloppy, I doubt he can recognize them. First: give: the correct form of the hieroglyphics that you are translating; then, connect them to your translated words. Start with the word: Ka. Where do you see Ka? Osiris? the god Thoth?. the royal scribe Hunefer? etc. Show us: what hieroglyphics mean: what you are saying? He does not do that, so he is faking it. He cannot fool me: I know what every hieroglyphic means (i.e., up to 3 or 4 thousand). They mean the same thing ever time, they are used, although, some like words: have more than one meaning. Except for one hieroglyph, they do not equal letters of the English alphabet. So, get that idea out of your head. This man is a disciple of E.A. Wallis Budge, who got every hieroglyphic wrong. Mr. Phil M. please give us--the top words [hieroglyphics] you translated in their correct form and connect them to your translation--or shut the fuck up.
Phil Montgomery’s reply: The fourth word of the first column is an Ibis on a standard which is the name of Thoth. The fifth word in column two is the name Osiris spelled with the eye, the throne, and the seated god determinative. The two words after it are "royal scribe spelled" with the sedge sign meaning "royal" and the scribal equipment sign meaning "scribe". After that is the name of Hunefer spelled with the house plan sign "h" the quail chick sign "w/u" and the nfr sign. I'm not sure how you can admit this is from Hunefer's book of the dead but then deny that his name is written on it. The third word in column eleven is Ka spelled with the up raised arms. The first word of the fifth column is rw spelled with the mouth sign, quail chick, and mummy sign, which means "to dance" but when it's applied to the heart "palpitation" is a possible translation.
Wow, I guess I need to explain how a colon works to you. I said "top" to indicate I was beginning with the hieroglyphs on top as opposed to the ones below the scale. You clearly have no grasp of ancient Egyptian theology. What this scene is depicting is the weighing of the heart. The spell is to make sure the heart is found pure and innocent. There is nothing strange about the language from an ancient Egyptian perspective. Also, you clearly no very little about Egyptian scripts. There is nothing sloppy about this writing. These are cursive hieroglyphs which is the standard script for books of the dead during the New Kingdom. It is perfectly clear to read.
What you are saying makes no sense. Firstly, there are not 4000 hieroglyphic signs there aren't even 3000. Secondly, 4000 thousands words could not be representative of Egyptian language.
Once again you show limited comprehension skills. No one educated says that hieroglyphs = English letters. We simply use transliterations as a convention to help with translation and sharing work.
I would say you have much more in common with Budge than I. You both are men of limited scruples and talent. I'm not sure why I am even having this discussion with someone who still doesn't know that "hieroglyphics" isn't a word.
My reply: Since, you did not follow directions and connect the top thirteen vertical columns of hieroglyphics to your translation: you should shut the fuck up.
Nearly, everything you said is wrong.
And since, you claim these are cursive hieroglyphics in the picture from the Hunefer papyrus have a different meaning to hieroglyphics engraved in stone, in the major temples of Egypt, we are on a different page.
Therefore, I must end this conversation.
Phil Montgomery’s reply: I'm not going to waste my time teaching you how to translate. It takes years of study and practice not made up mysticism. If you don't trust the scholarly work of those much smarter than you who have come before you that's on you. I can't change your mind but I would encourage you to stop spreading your nonsense around.
And, once again you show your blatant ignorance of Egyptian and Egyptian scripts. While papyrus copies of funerary texts like the book of the dead are written in cursive hieroglyphs. The same texts are painted or carved into the walls of tombs. It's the same language written in slightly different scripts. Neither requires mysticism to read.
And, once again "Hieroglyphics" is not a word.
My last and final comment:
The definition of Egyptian hieroglyphics given by this website are wrong. It is not a secular language. For the correction definition of over 2,000 hieroglyphics go to the website: www.hierodictionary.com -- or The First Authorized Dictionary of Hieroglyphics by Apostle Peter.
Top: Words said by Thoth, Lord of Medu-Netcher (words of the gods i.e. hieroglyphs) of the gods, "Spell for the heart of the Osiris the royal scribe Hunefer, justified. Let my heart speak my mind to me. My heart did not die. Palpitations did not manifest in ascending to me (that is "my heart did not waver when it was tested"), exactly. Do not oppose me in the Scale of the Gods. Do not make your enmity known in my presence on your scale my Ka being in my body which joins it (with) my limbs which have gone forth to good things.
Under the scale: Ammet, her front is as a crocodile, her rear is as a hippopotamus, her middle is as a lion.
This isn't the best writing so there are a few problems but this is mostly correct. Also, I must say that that the labels on the facsimile are not correct.
Hope this helps, if you don't mind me asking what are you using this for?
My reply: Phil Montgomery is wrong. It does not say this. Nowhere is the god Thoth in the picture--or the hieroglyph for Osiris--or the royal scribe Hunefer--or the Ka. This picture is from the papyrus of Hunefer. The hieroglyphics are are so sloppy--they are difficult to read. Phil Montgomery did not get one word right. He says the labels of the picture are not correct: he is wrong. They are close to being correct. Here is how you can tell Phil Montgomery is phony: he does not tell you, which hieroglyphs relate to his translation. I do. He needs to show us: which hieroglyphs correspond to his decipherment. Once he does, than I can prove he is wrong. He says the top words, which top words? which top words mean: "Do not make your enmity known in my presence on your scale my Ka being in my body which joins (with) my limbs.....? etc." This is crazy talk. Until, he does that: he is an impostor. And, once he does: I will show you he is wrong. To start: there is no word for palpitations in hieroglyphics. These hieroglyphics are so sloppy, I doubt he can recognize them. First: give: the correct form of the hieroglyphics that you are translating; then, connect them to your translated words. Start with the word: Ka. Where do you see Ka? Osiris? the god Thoth?. the royal scribe Hunefer? etc. Show us: what hieroglyphics mean: what you are saying? He does not do that, so he is faking it. He cannot fool me: I know what every hieroglyphic means (i.e., up to 3 or 4 thousand). They mean the same thing ever time, they are used, although, some like words: have more than one meaning. Except for one hieroglyph, they do not equal letters of the English alphabet. So, get that idea out of your head. This man is a disciple of E.A. Wallis Budge, who got every hieroglyphic wrong. Mr. Phil M. please give us--the top words [hieroglyphics] you translated in their correct form and connect them to your translation--or shut the fuck up.
Phil Montgomery’s reply: The fourth word of the first column is an Ibis on a standard which is the name of Thoth. The fifth word in column two is the name Osiris spelled with the eye, the throne, and the seated god determinative. The two words after it are "royal scribe spelled" with the sedge sign meaning "royal" and the scribal equipment sign meaning "scribe". After that is the name of Hunefer spelled with the house plan sign "h" the quail chick sign "w/u" and the nfr sign. I'm not sure how you can admit this is from Hunefer's book of the dead but then deny that his name is written on it. The third word in column eleven is Ka spelled with the up raised arms. The first word of the fifth column is rw spelled with the mouth sign, quail chick, and mummy sign, which means "to dance" but when it's applied to the heart "palpitation" is a possible translation.
Wow, I guess I need to explain how a colon works to you. I said "top" to indicate I was beginning with the hieroglyphs on top as opposed to the ones below the scale. You clearly have no grasp of ancient Egyptian theology. What this scene is depicting is the weighing of the heart. The spell is to make sure the heart is found pure and innocent. There is nothing strange about the language from an ancient Egyptian perspective. Also, you clearly no very little about Egyptian scripts. There is nothing sloppy about this writing. These are cursive hieroglyphs which is the standard script for books of the dead during the New Kingdom. It is perfectly clear to read.
What you are saying makes no sense. Firstly, there are not 4000 hieroglyphic signs there aren't even 3000. Secondly, 4000 thousands words could not be representative of Egyptian language.
Once again you show limited comprehension skills. No one educated says that hieroglyphs = English letters. We simply use transliterations as a convention to help with translation and sharing work.
I would say you have much more in common with Budge than I. You both are men of limited scruples and talent. I'm not sure why I am even having this discussion with someone who still doesn't know that "hieroglyphics" isn't a word.
My reply: Since, you did not follow directions and connect the top thirteen vertical columns of hieroglyphics to your translation: you should shut the fuck up.
Nearly, everything you said is wrong.
And since, you claim these are cursive hieroglyphics in the picture from the Hunefer papyrus have a different meaning to hieroglyphics engraved in stone, in the major temples of Egypt, we are on a different page.
Therefore, I must end this conversation.
Phil Montgomery’s reply: I'm not going to waste my time teaching you how to translate. It takes years of study and practice not made up mysticism. If you don't trust the scholarly work of those much smarter than you who have come before you that's on you. I can't change your mind but I would encourage you to stop spreading your nonsense around.
And, once again you show your blatant ignorance of Egyptian and Egyptian scripts. While papyrus copies of funerary texts like the book of the dead are written in cursive hieroglyphs. The same texts are painted or carved into the walls of tombs. It's the same language written in slightly different scripts. Neither requires mysticism to read.
And, once again "Hieroglyphics" is not a word.
My last and final comment:
The definition of Egyptian hieroglyphics given by this website are wrong. It is not a secular language. For the correction definition of over 2,000 hieroglyphics go to the website: www.hierodictionary.com -- or The First Authorized Dictionary of Hieroglyphics by Apostle Peter.
Phil Montgomery’s reply: no.